That is so tacky. In the Toronto Star the other day a reporter decried the misery of the squalid life in Ottawa of 1867 when Canada became a nation. What might have surprised the writer was that most world capitols of the era were no less squalid. Cities were rarely created at that time with […]
Continue readingMonth: January 2016
Montreal Simon: Crazy America, Canada, and the Right-Wing Menace
It should be obvious by now that Donald Trump is taking the United States to a very bad place.And that the bigoted demagogue is stirring up ignorant and violent right-wing extremists all over that country.As well as being a poster boy for Islamic terro…
Continue readingDemocracy Under Fire: The Problem with Proportional.
Fair Vote Canada in an open letter sent to the Prime Minister has come out strongly for
the Democratic Voting Task Force to involve citizens from the beginning on Trudeau’s pledge to have reform studied by an all-party committee, that is as it should be. However as with the NDPs platform pledge (and now even the Greens) they then say, while calling on the Task Force to conduct wide-reaching consultations, that Fair Vote Canada is clear – the government must come down in favour of some system of proportional representation (PR).
Having been looking at electoral reform options for a number of years now, and having previously come out in flavor of MMP (Mixed Member Proportional, the only truly proportional system) I now, after further study, am not at all totally convinced that a fully ‘proportional’ system is practical or even desirable in Canada. Something that more closely reflects the voters wishes is most certainly desirable, as is some modernization to our voter identification and balloting systems. Given the way our system works it would certainly be nice to be able to separate somewhat our wishes as to the local representative and our wish for the party to hold power but what of the problems that such a system may bring. Is the solution worse than the problem?
Several countries use a form of Mixed Member Proportional voting however few if any the size and diversity of Canada. There is a great deal of difference between adjusting for proportionality in a country the size of say New Zeland at 268,000 sq km, a population of 4.5m and 71 electorate seats, and Canada with almost 10 MILLION sq km and a population of 36 million and 338 ridings!
In the debate about proportional representation you will see a lot of arguments that go something like this…..
Winner-take-all gave Canada a House of Commons in 2011 of 166 Conservatives, 103 New Democrats, 34 Liberals, 4 Bloc Québécois, and one Green. TOTAL 308
Instead, the proportional results would have been roughly 127 ( 41% ) Conservatives, 97 (31%) New Democrats, 56 (18%) Liberals, 17 (5.5%) Bloc Québécois, and 11 (3.5%) Greens.TOTAL 308 MPs
That is NOT however how it works, irregardless of what ‘proportional’ system we use based upon the national vote (or a separate vote for party) the local MPs will be still elected for each riding (using a first past the post method) and thus cannot / will not loose their seats in order to make the results proportional thus the final make up of the HoC would look more like this….
166 ( 41% ) Conservatives (the number actually elected), 125 (31%) New Democrats, 72 (18%) Liberals, 22 (5.5%) Bloc Québécois, and 14 (3.5%) Greens. TOTAL around 400 MPs(rough figures / rounding errors / no partial MPs!) Note that the Greens and the Bloc would ‘appoint’ more MPs than were elected! (I also note we now have more than 308 ridings to start with!)
All Open List proportional voting systems chose from preordained list of ‘extra’ candidates provided by the party however there are several methods by which voters may chose said candidates and how such choices translate into who on the list actually is chosen.
The ballots can become quite complex with some such systems with the necessity to list not only the local candidates but the party lists (chosen by the party hierarchy) of each of the partys vying for power. A national list for our system could have to contain as many as 25 names per party but even if chosen on a regional basis the ballot could contain 20 or more names in total, with some folks complaining about the delays at the voting booth to just select one candidate this could become an issue. Even if reduced by having party lists for each province it is still will take longer to vote and remember there is no guarantee that any or all of these folks will ever see the floor of the HoC and how does one choose which province (or district) has the extra MP(s) if and when needed for top up? Presumably by the ones that get the highest number of vote (first past the post!) and would that mean that those in more populous Provinces / districts would get their choice over and above less populous areas.
In closed list systems, each political party has pre-decided who will receive the seats allocated to that party in the elections, so that the candidates positioned highest on this list tend to always get a seat in the parliament while the candidates positioned very low on the closed list will not. The party executive or party leaders generally control the list; consequently closed-list systems transfer political power to the un-elected persons who author the party’s list of candidates. The choices at the ballot box would be simpler with just selecting a local candidate and a preferred party but I seriously doubt that many folks will not select the party that the candidate belongs to, unless perhaps an independent is running. It should be noted that in this, and most other, ‘proportional’ systems there is normally a limit set as to the minimum popular vote below which the ‘party’ will not be considered for ‘top up’ MPs. Where should this be set, 5%, 10%, higher , lower?
The problem with both open and closed list MMP systems is that a candidate who perhaps has received considerable support from his ridings voters but not quite enough to be elected would in some situations be replaced by an individual, put on a short list by the party hierarchy, who many of those voters do not know from Adam. Who does this individual represent and is accountable to, the party, the district, the province in which he resides or who? It is obvious that it will be the party thus increasing the already overly amount of power the party bosses hold over our MPs.
One possible partial solution to some of these problems is to use Local Lists, that is to NOT have any pre ordained lists but to choose the extra MPs from those in the party who were not elected but received the highest proportion of the votes in their riding as compared with all other ridings. This would reduce the party control over the choices, at least use individuals that stood for election in the usual fashion and received an endorsement from many of his or her local citizens. Of course this still brings into question as to who they represent and are accountable to, and adds the perception that said riding has two MPs, a situation that would probably also occur to some extent with party list choices. It would however somewhat balance the desires of an area that was strongly in favour of party ‘A’ when the national popular vote favoured part ‘B’ by giving that area a greater chance of getting some of those ‘extra’ MPs! As noted previously in all of the above variations a lower limit is set below which a given Party would receive NO extra MPs, the setting of this threshold could have an enormous impact upon the outcome. For instance in the example above if set at 5% the Block would retain their 22 MPs but the Greens would be reduced to just one, all of a sudden its NOT proportional! I also note that in some MMP systems there is also an upper limit on the percentage of ‘list members’ that can be appointed in relation to the directly elected members 20% , 39% etc.. These little ‘details are important.
With the number of MPs varying depending upon results and possibly as many as 20-25% extra MPs having to be ‘nominated’ (and accountable to an unspecified authority) this is not an acceptable situation IMHO, the cost to the taxpayer alone, never mind the high percentage of ‘appointed’ MPs and where to put them, should make these systems (MMP, AV-PLUS) subject to a great deal of detailed study to see if the “cure” is worse than the problem. Any of those who openly promote “proportional voting” must in the same breath specify exactly which method of PR and which variation of said method they favour, anything less is meaningless. This is no less true of any of the alternative somewhat less proportional systems!
Non of the above will solve the real problem which is the apparent inability of our leaders and our MPs to drop the partisan rhetoric and work together for the good of the country (something which, given the probability of minority governments under PR they must learn to do) and the lack of any consequences (other than getting turfed from power when the electorate finally wakes up) when they fail to do so. We need parliamentary reform as much, if not more than electoral reform, let us hope that the new government will also work on that in the coming months and years..
Given the strong feeling about the various options, many of which unfortunately have been formed more upon the wish to change the results rather than any real knowledge on how such changes work in a practical sense, I expect my comment count to increase dramatically on this one. Please remember I am all for electoral reform (which encompasses far more than just the voting system) and more equitable results but see more problems than solutions in this option. Please dont shoot the messenger but do discuss the options.
The systems are many and varied and I hope to cover them in more detail in the future but for now check out the basics in my previous post on electoral reform here.
For much more information and opinion check out these post
Northern Reflections: Canada’s Role In Iraq And Syria
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/The Conservatives — and the Right Wing Media — accuse Justin…
Continue readingDead Wild Roses: The DWR Sunday Religious Disservice – On Church, State, and Politics
I’m consistently amazed by the audacity of organized religion and the amount of steamy-ripe-bullshit that it forces down our society’s throat. The fetid promotion and glorification of ignorance coupled with the consistent denial of science and fact is a burgeoning cataclysm for the human race. Organized stupidity, if left unchecked, will be the end […]
Continue readingDemocracy Under Fire: The Problem with Proportional.
Fair Vote Canada in an open letter sent to the Prime Minister has come out strongly for the Democratic Voting Task Force to involve citizens from the beginning on Trudeau’s pledge to have reform studied by an all-party committee, that is as it shou…
Continue readingThe Sir Robert Bond Papers: Up the harbour and down the shore, again #nlpoli
Today marks SRBP’s anniversary. The first post appeared on January 3, 2005.Events of the past few weeks are a reminder of both how much has changed – we have a new government party – and at the same time, how little has changed. Read on and…
Continue readingEclectic Lip: An end-of-year email re: end-of-year emails
[image credit: Kickstarter, evidently] Sent from the office on my last day of work in 2015. To a much, much younger cohort of coworkers. (And man, that’s depressing!) This is my last day in the office before the New Year (barring any work from home, which I might do to get ahead of the curve) […]
Continue readingAlberta Politics: Newsletter publisher apologizes and takes full responsibility for wrong MLA message – but Team Angry’s still angry at NDP
PHOTOS: Spokespeople for the Wildrose and Progressive Conservative parties stand by to comment in the media on the latest manufactured Alberta political crisis. Actual opposition politicians may not appear exactly as illustrated. Below: Independent MLA…
Continue readingA Puff of Absurdity: On Justice and Hatred
I had an online discussion at Dawg’s Blawg about the primary theme of Tarantino’s newest film, The Hateful Eight, and it got a bit too provocative to manage a sincere response in the window of a comment, so I brought it here. Unfortunately I can’…
Continue readingAndy Lehrer: "Actually, it’s about ethics in galactic domination"
No wonder MRAs and the manosphere hate Force Awakens so much – Kylo Ren is an embodiment of Gamergate and the MRA.Geek male identity has been reduced to Kylo Ren impotently thrashing a computer with his sword
Continue readingAndy Lehrer: "Actually, it’s about ethics in galactic domination"
No wonder MRAs and the manosphere hate Force Awakens so much – Kylo Ren is an embodiment of Gamergate and the MRA.Geek male identity has been reduced to Kylo Ren impotently thrashing a computer with his sword
Continue readingAndy Lehrer: "Actually, it’s about ethics in galactic domination"
No wonder MRAs and the manosphere hate Force Awakens so much – Kylo Ren is an embodiment of Gamergate and the MRA.Geek male identity has been reduced to Kylo Ren impotently thrashing a computer with his sword
Continue readingPolitics and its Discontents: Mandy Patinkin’s Impassioned Defence of Refugees
Even though he co-stars in a show, Homeland, that presents a quite bifurcated view of the world, (and even though it does, I love its suspense and its flawed characters), a recent television appearance by Mandy Patinkin saw him offering an impassioned …
Continue readingBigCityLib Strikes Back: Longos, At Night
I have written about Longos most permissive and excellent samples policy here. The problem is they stop giving out samples sometime after 4 PM. Yet people come in after 4 and there are NO SAMPLES and they are HUNGRY!!! They might be walking…
Continue readingScripturient: The Blackened Nose
There’s a famous Zen tale that I was reminded of as I was reading the media release about the Collingwood Airport this week. It somehow seemed remarkably fitting. It’s about the folly of selfishness, of thinking yours is the only way forwar…
Continue readingWarren Kinsella: Cartoon perfectly sums up how progressives like me deal with Donald Trump
In light of the latest, I’d say we need to come up with a better strategy, PDQ.
I have a hunch my wife has a plan.
Yappa Ding Ding: Viva les Piratas Canadienses!
My friend Kate is currently in a 500 km boat race called the Ngalawa Cup in the Indian Ocean – sailing a dugout canoe with outriggers and a single sail. (Ngalawa is the Swahili word for outrigger, and this is a traditional Tanzanian fishing vessel, although in my memory they
Continue readingYappa Ding Ding: Viva les Piratas Canadienses!
My friend Kate is currently in a 500 km boat race called the Ngalawa Cup in the Indian Ocean – sailing a dugout canoe with outriggers and a single sail. (Ngalawa is the Swahili word for outrigger, and this is a traditional Tanzanian fishing vessel, alt…
Continue readingLeDaro: Alan Kurdi’s Family Begins New Life as Refugees in Canada
TUE, DEC 29The Syrian family became symbols of the refugee crisis after photos of the family’s boy, who washed up dead, on a Turkish beach, sparked international outrage. NBCThis is very encouraging.
Continue reading